BRASÍLIA - Two days after being called insecure and having a "difficult temperament" by Justice Cezar Peluso, Supreme Federal Court Justice Joaquim Barbosa responded in a harsh tone. In an interview with O GLOBO, Barbosa called the now former president of the STF "ridiculous," "tacky," "hick," "corporate," "disloyal," "tyrannical," and "small." He accused Peluso of manipulating trial results according to his own interests and of practicing "supreme bullying" against him due to the health issues that led him to take leave for treatment. Barbosa is the rapporteur for the "mensalão" scandal and will assume the presidency of the STF in seven months, succeeding Ayres Britto, who was sworn in this Thursday. For Barbosa, Peluso leaves no legacy to the STF: "People will remember the image of a conservative and tyrannical president who did not hesitate to violate norms when it came to forcing his will."
O GLOBO: Upon leaving office, the former president of the STF, Justice Cezar Peluso, gave an interview in which he mentioned you. At one point, he says that you will not refuse the presidency of the court under any circumstances. Is that true?
JOAQUIM BARBOSA: For me, assuming the presidency of the STF is an obligation. I have done everything possible and impossible to recover consistently and arrive well in December to take over the presidency of the Court. But, to be honest, I must say that the obstacles I have had so far in pursuit of this goal, unfortunately, were almost all created by Mr... Cezar Peluso. It was he who, in 2010, when I took two months off for intensive treatment in São Paulo, questioned my medical leave and, see how ridiculous, raised the possibility of me being compulsorily retired. It was he who, in the second half of last year, after I underwent a very difficult (hip) surgery that left me unable to walk for several months, ignored the fact and insisted on putting my cases on the trial agenda to force my attendance at the plenary, regardless of whether my condition allowed it or not.
Did you take any action?
BARBOSA: One day I took the descriptive reports of my health problems, signed by the doctors who were attending to me at the time, Dr. Lin Tse and Dr. Roberto Dantas, both from São Paulo, and handed them to Peluso, thus waiving the right I have to confidentiality regarding health issues. Since then, what I jokingly described to my advisors as "supreme bullying" had ceased. The gossip about my health condition disappeared from the newspapers.
What is your opinion on the interview given by Cezar Peluso?
BARBOSA: Lo and behold, on the penultimate day of his disastrous presidency, Mr. Peluso, in a display of tacky, hick "désinvolture," returns to exposing embarrassing details of my health problem to journalists, even involving the name of a widely recognized doctor in the field of neurosurgery who, unfortunately, is not part of the team of doctors attending to me. My God! Is that the posture of a president of the Supreme Federal Court?
Justice Peluso said in the interview that the court was pacified during his tenure. Do you agree with that assessment?
BARBOSA: Peluso is mistaken. He did not pacify the court. On the contrary, he set the entire Judiciary on fire with his corporatist obsession.
In your view, what legacy does Justice Peluso leave for the STF?
BARBOSA: No positive legacy. People will remember the image of a conservative, imperial, tyrannical STF president who did not hesitate to violate norms when it came to forcing his will. I give examples: Peluso countless times manipulated or tried to manipulate trial results, creating false procedural issues simply to cause turmoil and not proclaim the result that was contrary to his thinking. Remember the impasse in the first Ficha Limpa trials, which led the court to hours of useless discussions; he did not hesitate to vote twice in the same case, which is absolutely unconstitutional, illegal, unacceptable (the justice refers to the trial that cleared Jader Barbalho of the Ficha Limpa Law and guaranteed his return to the Senate, in which Peluso's double vote, guaranteed in the STF Internal Regulations, was decisive. Joaquim disagrees with this instrument); he committed the barbarity and disloyalty of, during a short trip I took to the United States for a medical consultation, "invading" my area (I was the rapporteur of the case), stealing the case from me so he could easily give in to pressure...
When you assume the presidency, how do you intend to lead the court? Do you think you will have problems dealing with the judiciary and lawyers?
BARBOSA: No problems. I will treat everyone with urbanity, with equity, without preferences for A, B, or C.
Justice Peluso also called you insecure and said that, because of this, you would take offense at anything. He even stated that you have violent reactions. Do you agree with that assessment?
BARBOSA: By saying that I am insecure, Justice Peluso forgot to notice something very important. We belong to different worlds. What he sometimes thinks is my insecurity is actually just an absence or lack of appetite for conversation, due to a lack of common ground. Just compare our resumes, personal and professional life paths. I bet the following: Peluso has never enjoyed or heard of The Ink Spots (a North American rock and blues group from the 1930s/40s)! That alone says everything about the world that exists separating us...
You have already been involved in some heated discussions in the plenary, including with Justice Gilmar Mendes. Do you think this happened due to your temperament or another factor?
BARBOSA: Some non-Black Brazilians think they have the right to take certain liberties with Black people. You've noticed that I don't allow that, right? That's what happened on that occasion.
Are you afraid of being labeled arrogant, as Justice Peluso said? Are you afraid of being labeled as someone who went to the STF not for merit, but because of skin color, also according to the justice's statement?
BARBOSA: Upon arriving at the STF, I had a legal education that very few in the history of the court have had the privilege of having. Racist people, in general, make a point of forgetting this little detail of my resume. They insist at every moment on the color of my skin. Peluso wouldn't be an exception, would he? By the way, allow me to relate a recent episode, which is quite illustrative of Peluso's pettiness: a French university invited me to participate in a doctoral committee where an excellent thesis on the Supreme Federal Court and its role in Brazilian democracy would be defended. Peluso vetoed the payment of my per diems during the three days of absence, while it seemed evident to me the Court's interest in projecting itself internationally, because, after all, it was its work that was under discussion. Insecure, me?
Do you consider that Peluso treated your health problem disrespectfully?
BARBOSA: Yes.
Do you suffer from color prejudice from your colleagues at the STF? And from other people?
BARBOSA: Draw your own conclusions. I have almost 40 years of public life. Everywhere I have worked, there has always been one joker or another taking certain liberties with me, thinking that the color of my skin authorized them to do so. My response has always come immediately, harshly. But that hasn't stopped me from having hundreds of friends in the four corners of the world.
Shit got real,
